Ep. 58: Bridging the Gap: Building Teacher-BCBA Collaboration for Student Success

🤝 Join Caitlin and Audra as they dive into the crucial topic of fostering strong working relationships between school-based BCBAs and teachers! Learn from their real-world experiences – both successes and challenges – in building mutual respect and understanding for the benefit of students.

💡 It's all about teamwork! Discover how to move beyond potential roadblocks and create effective partnerships.

🔑 Key Takeaways
✅ Lead with trust—respect teachers’ expertise, time, and lived experience
🧠 Use teacher-friendly language and avoid behavior jargon (save “DRO” for later)
🎯 Ask open-ended questions to understand their struggles before jumping to solutions
💡 Use simple tools like “What’s Working / Not Working” to frame tough conversations
🧍 Mirroring emotions and validating teachers’ experiences builds connection
📉 Even if you don’t become best friends, aim for collaboration over compliance
🪄 Pro tip: Genuine praise in front of others goes a long way in building rapport

📚 Resources and Ideas
🎧 Previous Relevant Episodes:
🔗 Episode 3: 6 Ways to Approach Challenging Behaviors and Trauma-Informed Care
🔗 Episode 10: Navigating Difficult Conversations with ABA Staff

📖 Book Recommendations:
🔗 Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It by Chris Voss  - Discussed for its insights on communication and building understanding.
🔗 Let Them by Mel Robbins

📝 Freebie:
💡 Caitlin's "What's Working/What's Not Working" visual for facilitating positive meeting starts

Join Us...
🎙 Next Episode: Part 13 of the FBA mini-series, MASTERY!
🌟 Subscribe: Don’t miss upcoming episodes on practical strategies and must-have resources for behavior support!
📢 Share this episode with a teacher, BCBA, or administrator looking for fresh approaches to special education and behavior analysis!
💬 Let us know how YOU connect with staff in our Facebook group  @TheMisfitBehaviorists
📚 Connect: Follow us for more tips, tools, and discussions about all things behavior and education.  

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👋 Find us!

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• Caitlin | Beltran’s Behavior Basics
• Sami | B.A.S.S.

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Transcript

Ep. 58: Bridging the Gap: Building Teacher-BCBA Collaboration for Student Success 

[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to the Misfit Behaviorist Podcast. Join your hosts, Audra Jensen and Caitlin Beltran here to bring you evidence-based strategies with a student-centered focus. Let's get started. 

[00:00:12] Caitlin: Welcome back to the Misfit Behaviorist Podcast. Tonight, Audra and I are chatting about bridging the gap between being a school-based BCBA and our teachers that we're working with. So, I know we've talked about this before, back in an early episode, I think, and so I thought it'd be cool to just share some of our success and our failure stories along the way. We know that when working with teachers, we wanna build that mutual respect and understanding, and some teachers I find like it's just so seamless. If you have the buy-in from day one, it's like an amazing thing, but that is not always the case, and sometimes it's not even often the case. So we'll talk about both sides. Audra, what would you say is more the norm that you've seen? 

[00:00:55] Audra: I think this is a really good topic. For one thing, somebody in the Facebook group actually asked this specific thing after we'd already planned on talking about this, as a BCBA or some sort of district specialist working with teachers, not only any gen ed teacher, but we have a lot of teachers who may have been doing this a very long time, and we come in with new ideas and it's hard for them to collaborate. The key in being able to come together, build a relationship of trust like we do with our kids too, building a relationship of trust with our teachers and let them know that we are on the team with them, I think is one of the most important things we can do.

[00:01:31] For the most part, I've had very cooperative teachers and usually when you go into a situation, they're already sort of hair on fire. By the time I get there, their hair is on fire and they're so grateful to have any idea, that usually they're on board with doing it. The things I think I've had the most kind of pushback on is anything that causes them more work, and I totally understand that because they're managing an entire classroom and then they have different behaviors and they have behaviors in their classrooms of students without IEPs in particular, after Covid, these last few years have been significantly more behavior type classrooms, just typically developing kids, and so anything that we're asking them to do or perceive that takes them outside of their ability to manage the classroom. So you have this increase in behaviors and then you have higher expectations from admin and standardized testing and all this other stuff. And our regular teachers are overwhelmed. And so I think the goal when going into a situation like that is to really build that relationship. What can we do to help your situation? What's something small that I can do to help alleviate that burden that you have? And I think that's the biggest improvement I've seen, and as far as like people's attitude about us coming in is being able to let them feel like I recognize your plate is extremely full. What can I take off of this that will help? Can I give you a different piece of silverware that will help you eat those peas better? How can I give you a different tool, I can't take the plate away, but maybe there's something I can do to help you manage it. 

[00:03:01] Caitlin: Yeah, and sometimes just like flat out framing it that way to the teacher. The last thing I wanna do is be to be giving you more work. I can see how much you have to do already. We all do. But, at the same time I hear that you're saying this isn't working right now. How much time or effort or energy are you willing to devote to trying something new? And sometimes when you just cut to the chase, I find that you're able to get to that sort of starting point a little quicker. So whether it's, like you said, starting with one small thing, or we never wanna be that BCBA who's just, here's a brand new plan, drop it and run. See you in two weeks. We know that's not gonna do it. But at the same time. We don't wanna go full on the other way and say, oh, it looks like you're just so busy. I don't wanna add anything to your plate. So I guess I have no value here. So we wanna toe the line between hearing what they're saying, like what you mentioned, a couple words, like that trust and respect, like respecting their time, respecting how hard they're working, even if it's someone you don't really see eye to eye with or don't maybe align with the strategies they're using currently, but hear their frustration, hear the problem and then also acknowledge that this is a safe space. Because a lot of times I'll have teachers who say, he does this and he does this, he does this, and then it's almost like they catch themselves. I don't mean to just be complaining the whole time and it's, oh, that's okay. Get it out. We're all human. I want you to trust me and I want you to feel like you can talk to me openly so that I can talk to you openly so that we can come to that mutual understanding of trust and rapport and so that I can help you. Sometimes just cutting to the chase and seeing like how much they're willing to try one piece at a time can be really helpful.

[00:04:37] Audra: If we've come in from the clinical background or we spent a lot of time in clinical and coming into an education setting is very different, and keeping in mind that their ability to do what we could do in a clinical setting is going to be very different. That's that one thing, and then also watching the type of language that we use that we don't become to sound like the doctor that comes in with these really big words and stuff. Just talk normal, speak to teachers 'cause you know, they're really smart. You don't need to act like you're smart by having really big words. Use your, just your regular layman's terms with them and help alleviate some of that stress. 

[00:05:10] Caitlin: We certainly don't wanna alienate anyone by being like, so what do you think about A DRO? Using those teacher friendly people, friendly terms and really reminding ourselves too, I'm not like dumbing things down, like they are just as educated and smart and know things just as much as I am just from a different lens, like from a different background. They're the expert in this kid right in front of them. I might be the expert in behavior modification in my area. I don't know this kid half as well as they know them. So I wanna really tap into their knowledge and expertise and so that they'll allow us to tap into mine as well.

[00:05:43] One of the ways I found too to do this is like we talk about the trust and building that relationship, not just with students, but with teachers. And I know we talk about like the compliment sandwich or the feedback sandwich or something like that. And I don't think it has to be so formal or such a pat thing. Just genuinely looking for the good and complimenting them where you can. Especially I find two other people. So if I start working with a new teacher that I don't really know that well, I do try to look for one or two things I really value that they're already doing, and then I make a point of not only saying, wow, I love how you diffuse that situation. That was handled so beautifully. But then if somebody, like a team member walks by, or if an admin walks by, or if an admin just checks in with me, how's it going? I'm like, yeah, we're just getting started. But so far I already see eye to eye on this or I love how they're using this strategy, and I'm not saying just so that gets back to them in an unnatural way, but just so that they see that you really are on their team and you are a person of trust and who is looking for the good and what they're doing.

[00:06:41] Audra: Especially if you can get an admin or somebody within the earshot of the person and be able to make that compliment toward the admin where they can hear. If they come in the room at the same time saying, I just love this thing that she did. I'm gonna take it to the other kids that I work with. That just beefs up that ability and that respect and feeling that they get inside too. The other thing I was thinking is that a lot of the strategies we use with our learners, we can use with our teachers too. We talk about mirroring back emotional states and stuff, and you go into a teacher, working with them and you can tell they're frustrated and stuff. Just mirroring back some of that, that we have taught paras to do with the students. I think it's really important that we do with the teachers as well as I can see this is a really challenging student. I recognize that. So things like that, using, not really first then, hey, let's work on this little thing. And then you don't have to say, here's your first then chart. But a lot of the strategies you use are just good behavioral strategies for everybody, and something will work with even the teachers you work with. 

[00:07:38] Caitlin: I was reading that book that you gave me a while ago never split the difference. It's actually fascinating. The 

[00:07:43] Audra: FBI negotiator. 

[00:07:44] Caitlin: He's negotiator. Yes. So he has a fascinating job, it just related so much to what we do, or like human psychology. He talked so much and I was really trying to take pieces of it back to what I could use in my own day-to-day practice. And when he talked about talking less and listening more and asking more questions, and that those validating statements and a specific point that he made instead of saying, I'm hearing that you're saying this, like where it's okay, it's still the frame is on me like I'm hearing and the takeaway that I'm getting is this. And more just flat out saying, so it seems like this is really frustrating. It seems like he leaves the classroom all the time. It seems cut to the chase. This is what's happening. And like you said, just validating and mirroring that sometimes is so important and we don't wanna ignore the part where we give strategies and help, but we don't wanna overlook that first part either, because I think it's such a huge piece of connection between yourself and the teacher.

[00:08:38] Audra: That's a really good book. We'll put that in the show notes, and I like that he isn't telling the people he is working with what to do. His whole ability is to get them to come to the conclusion of what needs to happen on their own. So they think it's their idea. And we can do that with teachers. We do know some things that need to happen in certain situations, we do, but we don't wanna just go in and tell the teachers what to do. We want to have them come to the same conclusion that we've come to, but in their own way so that they're at the table with us. And so that book is really good in helping that figure out two negotiations coming together for one group decision. And then the decision you make is you've made it together. And now we move forward is so much easier that way. 

[00:09:20] Caitlin: The example that really stuck out to me in the book is he's talking about when he was like early on working at a crisis hotline and somebody called in distress. And so it reminded me, of course, of like us speaking to a student or being the first on the scene if a student is in crisis or distressed and how he calmed the person down, which was good. But then after that, in his mind, it went really well because he was able to give these really powerful suggestions and the caller was like. Okay, I'll try that. I'll try that. And, and he felt like the person was really listening and he gave great suggestions. And so he thought he was gonna get this like glowing review from his supervisor. And the supervisor was like, that was the worst call I've ever heard. And he was like, what are the chances that you just did a 180 on this person's mindset in like the 10 minutes that you talked and now they're really gonna follow all those suggestions? And he was like, but they said they would. And he was like, well, did you ask them enough questions to know how they got into that headspace in the first place. How could all those suggestions even work for that person, or in this case, our learners or our teachers, if we haven't taken the time to understand what led them to be in this head space or what led them to make those choices they did in the first place.

[00:10:25] So it was just a great reminder to ask more questions, more open-ended questions. If you feel like you're coming to a place of that back and forth, whether it's like with a teacher or a parent, that is a great trick I find in parent meetings as well, to just start, oh, why do you think that won't work? What do you mean by that? And before you know it, one, you're slowly diffusing the situation, but if you are talking to a teacher, you're slowly chipping away at the reasons that they feel that they do, and hopefully gently steering them back to the plan that you have in mind. But if you just come in and say, this is the plan. I know you don't wanna do it, but I want you to try it. Please try it. Just try it. One, their back is against the wall. They don't wanna try it, and two, they don't see the value because you haven't led them to the point of understanding the plan. 

[00:11:07] Audra: I remember that call that you talked about. I thought that was a really good one too. For one thing, you're talking to somebody who's had trauma, right? And if you've had any history and learning about trauma, it's a very quick shutdown. So if you start to push on it, you'll see them shut down. We see that with our students too that have a trauma background. If you switch that and you have a teacher who's had some trauma with a particular student or something, if you start pushing your agenda on them, you're gonna have that same shutdown response, which comes from a trauma that they've been experiencing. So that is so important to make sure you open it up, you're not pushing on that, you're opening it up so that you can get in to where they are. The whole idea of having a trauma and how to work with it is making sure that person feels safe. Do the same thing working with a teacher. Make sure that they feel safe. It's safe to talk about what they're concerned about. Safe to open up like you talked about, and say things maybe that's okay to say here. And then feel safe to work together to find a solution that both of you feel like you're going the right direction. But I think that trauma background, remember that your teachers may have a trauma response to some of this too. 

[00:12:12] Caitlin: My supervisor has a great strategy for any kind of meeting that we feel like is going to be potentially dicey is she has a start with this little chart of what's working and what's not working, and it's like a great kind of like secret trick to begin the meeting or the conversation on a positive. So I was using that recently. I thought if you're working with a teacher or like first meeting with a teacher or about to meet with a teacher who you know may have some resistance, it's almost like a Jedi mind trick, like we're forcing them to get into this more positive head space rather than saying, okay, after you describe the behavior, of course, when you validate. When we talk about strategies, what are some things you've noticed that do work? When he has a great day, what are some things that you've noticed that, oh, that was helpful. That one strategy, like one time? Yeah, it was only one time, but I did see this work. And if you really force them to list two or three things that have worked, or two or three successful days, describe what they look like. You're really like subconsciously triggering those parts of their brain that are more positive and it's really putting them into a more agreeable head space to get into that next step, which is talking about, okay, and tell me about the times that it doesn't work. What does that look like?

[00:13:20] This may be a hot take, but at the end of the day. If you validated the teacher, if you've understood the trauma that they're coming from, if you've tried your best to use that teacher user friendly terms, and you have tried to start slowly and not pile on too much work for them in the beginning, I think just understanding that sometimes you may not be best friends or even get along or even have the best working relationship. We are never going to work amazingly with every other human being that we contact with, unless you're a rare unicorn I haven't met yet. The other book I'm reading right now is that Mel Robbins Let Them, and I've seen so many takes on social media feature edition of Let Them, yeah, they're hilarious. So funny.

[00:14:02] To the student or to the parent, but it also applies to our colleagues, right? If I try my best and we walk away and I think to myself, oh, they are probably just thinking, I don't know what I'm talking about. I've never been in their shoes. Okay. They probably are. I'm gonna let them and I'm gonna move on my day. There's nothing I can do about that. 

[00:14:20] Audra: They're not gonna throw a chair through the window.

[00:14:22] Caitlin: It doesn't mean let them walk all over you. It don't mean let them trash you all over town. It doesn't mean walk away and never go back to them and try to help them. It just means understanding and I feel like it did take me a while when I was younger and I first started out to get to that point of I'm never gonna please everyone. We all know that, but we all also logically are human and think, what more can I do? At the end of the day, there's gonna be some battles we're just not gonna win. 

[00:14:49] I think that is it for today's episode. Please jump into our Facebook group Misfit Behaviorists, or find us on Instagram, same name. Drop a comment about what you guys want us to talk about next. 

[00:15:01] Intro: Thanks for listening to the Misfit Behaviorists, and be sure to tune in next week for more tips and tricks. Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode.